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#11: 'Silence of the Lambs' Review

• Preston Moore & Carson Terrell • Episode 11

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Well, have the lambs stopped screaming? Preston and Carson delve back into the world of horror with a detailed discussion on the classic film, Silence of the Lambs! They explore the fear-inducing elements, the acclaimed performances by Anthony Hopkins and Jodie Foster, the historical inspirations behind the film, and their personal reactions.

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Preston:

Welcome into Zoll Pod. I am one of your hosts, Preston Moore. Joined by my co-host Carson Terrell. Carson, how are you doing tonight?

Carson:

It is a spooky, spooky night in October and I have all the lights on and for good reason because the movie we're about to talk about today made me scared of the dark again in the worst way, but I'm happy to talk about it. This is, a movie that I know both of us. Haven't seen, and it's been fun to tell everybody. Try to not tell everybody that we we're watching this movie, but also I told like five people and everyone's like, oh my gosh, you haven't seen this movie. But yeah, this is gonna be a fun episode. I just have a feeling.

Preston:

It, it's funny what you texted me right after you finished, and you were like, I'm gonna go turn on all the lights in my apartment right now because I just watched this movie. So for those of you who are tuning in today, we are talking Silence of the Lambs, one of the great, horror thriller movies of all time. Neither of us had seen it. This is something that both of us kind of want to do with this podcast as a whole we'll talk about a little bit later, but, watching movies that. of us have seen or maybe showing each other movies that the other one has seen. Um, and just kind of dissecting them and especially some of these, classics, you know, like Silence of the Lambs, some of these great movies that are so popular and so just embedded into the pop culture zeitgeist for the last, you know, 30, 35 years or so. That, I mean, we've even got, I, I'll talk about this later, but We've even got, the president of the United States brings up Hannibal Lecter and his speeches all the time, and now having seen. The movie, I am even more bewildered by the fact that the president likes to bring up the late great Hannibal Lecter, as he says. but all that to say, it's a big movie. It's been around for a long time and it was one of, it still is one of, the greatest horror thriller movies of all time. And it's right around, the right time of year to be talking about this late October spooky season in full swing. Carson, I. I just kind of to start things off, I love this movie. I loved it. I absolutely loved it. I know you did too. And I'm was FI found myself saying What took you so long to watch this movie? I just found myself thinking, I can't believe I took this long. Like this thing is of the best I've ever seen immediately.

Carson:

And it's crazy too, like I was just as you were doing that first bit there, I was like, okay, I know there's the IMDB. Greatest a hundred movies list where, you know, not an exact science, but there's a lot of reviews on there. And this movie is almost in the top 20. It's number 22 on IMD B'S top movie list. So I have a feeling that we're gonna find some other movies on here that both of us haven't seen or one of us really, really enjoys and wants to share with the other person. Uh, but that being said. Back to the movie itself. Yes. I felt the exact same way. Especially, you know, when I was first texting you after, like, the third act of this movie is one of the most insane things I've ever like, and also like, just from a technical perspective, like this movie starts out and you're like, oh, this is like a nice, like chill. Like she's just running on the, the FI training course. We get like. I, it might be like a a five minute intro, full credits, and I was like, I don't think. Our attention spans could withstand this type of intro in 2025. And it made me sad because it's like full credits and full and that was when I was like, when I saw Howard Shore pop up, I was like, wait a minute, you mean Lord of the Rings Howard Shore? And I, oh, and like all the little strings, string music in this movie, it was just like, yes. And it's like all the puzzle pieces were clicking together. Much as the mystery of this movie clicks together. And also having watched, true Detective night country, with Jodi Foster last year or two years ago. It was like so cool to see her literally 30 years ago, in this mystery kind of role, and then like in the H-B-H-B-O show all this time later, doing a similar but. Very different type of law enforcement role. And it's funny how this starts out. I'm almost just like, oh, like we're, it's this gonna be a nice little drama. Like I guess I was expecting'cause I've heard so much about this movie, I was expecting this massive hook and it's kind of insane how it gets away with being like this chill kind of fall atmosphere. Like I was kind of.

Preston:

yeah.

Carson:

It caught me off guard in the best way. Like, I don't know if that's how you felt about the movie, like it took its time to get into it, but by the time it gets to the one scene, and we'll talk about it later, you're like, oh, now I know what this movie's about. But then it keeps one upping itself I don't know if that's how you felt like the script was, but it's simultaneously like calm and cool delivery, but like the actual. Stuff in the script is so heightened and so good that it stresses you out and that the levels just rise. The whole movie man. It be truly becomes like really good thriller.

Preston:

It does, and you talk about the way that it continues to escalate and those levels rising as it goes. One thing I'll never forget, when I was in journalism school, one of my first professors, he had this idea of gold coins, right? And that's what he called kind of just little nuggets that you would drop in your writing within a story that kind of brought us back into it, brought us back to engaged into whatever you're writing, and when we were working on packages, he would say like, this is where you're gonna, you need to drop a gold coin somewhere here because you're gonna lose us over this time. Now, obviously. In a journalism package, in a broadcast news package, you know, you're looking at 90 seconds, maybe, you know, up to three, four minutes if it's a long form one. But even in writing, you're thinking about that stuff as well when you're writing articles. In my experience, I think of that gold coin analogy all the time in film, whenever I'm watching films, and I think what Silence of the Lambs does really well is it takes this idea of the gold coins. You talked about that slow beginning. I say slow, it's just kind of calm. It's a calm fall atmosphere. You're not really thinking about all of the things that it's gonna become. Even 35 years later. We're watching it after release and we know what we're getting into. We know what this movie's about. We know that this is a horror thriller movie, but at the same time, you know. In this opening phase of the movie, we're in this beginning first, 20, 30 minutes where we're invested and we're signed up for it. We're gonna give it a chance as an audience member who has not seen it, you're gonna give the movie a chance for 20, 30 minutes and it takes its time getting slow. And then as it needs to escalate, as it needs to involve, some of those gold coins as it needs to. Invoke some of those scenes as it needs to just give you some of these jaw dropping moments or moments where your eyes become glued to the screen and you don't even realize that they're glued to the screen. It does that, and it does that in such great timing throughout the script that whole thing, by the time it's finished, you talked about that third act, you're on the edge of your seat. You cannot keep your eyes off the screen. By the time it's finished, you look back and you're like. That was, that was And you think about every single part of the narrative, and you're like, I don't know what I would take out of that, if I would take anything out of that, because it was just. The exact way that it needed to be. And you look back on it and it's absolutely fantastic. And so to your point, in terms of the way that it escalates and continues getting better you can look at so many moments before the third act even begins. You know, there was a moment when I realized we were in the third act and I was like, oh. Now it's, like, this is, is now gonna be good. Like, it's been fantastic. But now we're into the third act where, every movie is, gonna really hit its home runs. The realization of like, this is the third act, That means that the entire first and second act were as good as it was just now. All of that hitting me. Was really a moment whenever I realized just how special this movie was going to be. And obviously the third act knocks it outta the park. But the beginning and the middle, I mean, it's a very tight story and it has so many, of those little gold coins of those moments that you're just like, wow. Like that really just leaves you speechless and surprises you. There were a lot of surprises in this movie for me, again, which. something that I think maybe we've taken for granted, I don't know, something we don't really get in 2025

Carson:

Yes.

Preston:

there were moments that I did not expect, and that's not even to say that a lot of the predictable movies I've seen the modern era aren't good. There's plenty of good movies that I can predict what's gonna happen next the entire time. But, when a movie can catch you off guard in so many little ways. The way that Silence of the Lambs did for me, it's a credit to it.

Carson:

Totally. And that reminds me of something. Speaking of your little gold coin analogy, it's like in um, in. Like a screenwriting analogy is like the best surprises are the most obvious ones that are like executed in a way that makes it so believable in the world that it's inhabiting. And I remember texting you last night too, of like, oh my gosh, this movie got us like two times with. The switcheroo thing once when Hannibal Lecter gets out of, his prison cell after he's transferred, and a number of other things happen. And it does the bait and switch with him actually, being the person in the ambulance. And then also again at the end when, you know it's coming that they're not, she, that the FBI is not gonna be in the right house and that she's gonna be in the house, but like, your body like, just feels like, oh my gosh. Well, what I don't know how this is possible'cause the editing gets you so locked into like the story that you start to forget. The little details of continuity. And that's what the best movies do is they make you forget about the stupid little bits of continuity and you buy into every twist and turn and then you're still surprised. And that movie, or this movie is a perfect example of that. And it could have been completely over the top and it could have been completely cheesy, but like from the first introduction of Anthony Hopkins, I knew some of the most stuff that we've seen from this movie is like these closeup shots that everybody talks about of like, it kind of goes back to like the Kubrick stare of like Stanley Kubrick movies. Like, it makes me think of like The Shining and other things where, you know, someone's looking down the lens, but when I actually saw the first closeup of Anthony Hopkins in this movie, I was like, oh my gosh, this is terrifying. Um,

Preston:

is

Carson:

and

Preston:

this is what it's

Carson:

this is what everyone's talking about.

Preston:

this is, this is

Carson:

And it's, it's, it's,

Preston:

yeah.

Carson:

and it's, it's like shocking that like it could still do that to me. Even though, like I've seen that on Twitter a million different times. People in replies like, you know, memeing around with this image for collectively the existence of the internet. This has been thrown around. But then like seeing it in context, like changes everything and I was just so. Enamored by this, like how he played this character, the writing, like watching their dynamic, him and, the Clarice character Jodi Foster, like develop, like, it's sort of like this weird, like they're so, they're both like interested in each other's goals and like, what's going on and like, she needs answers, but like he. Is obviously imprisoned and like just wants to like pick her mind and manipulate her and like be maniacal in the situation. And it's like so fascinating to watch that develop. It's like kind of like a dark comedy for a bit, but then all of a sudden. He gets transferred and all this stuff happens with him and you're like, oh yeah, he has also tricked me. And he is definitely a serial killer. And you're like, it gets you too. Like you kind of fall for his, the quid pro quo of it all of like, oh, you, you need to answer this now. And like, you feel yourself kind of lulling into that.

Preston:

Yeah.

Carson:

It's just a fascinating back and forth. Like I was just so captivated by each of their scenes and starting off walking down that long hallway. And I think he's not even facing the camera, right? Like he's at the back of the wall. I can't remember if he's, painting or doing one of those drawings or whatever he is doing, but the whole introduction scene just was like, okay, I am sitting up in my chair now. Need to lock in and figure out what's going on with this movie. And it really, it never really let up.

Preston:

You talk about, Anthony Hopkins as Hannibal Lecter. That scene I was texting a friend of mine and I watched this on Sunday and so he was texting me a little bit about fantasy football and stuff I told him, I was like, i'm not watching the game right now. I'm actually, I'm watching Silence of the Lambs. It's my first time. And I had texted him, I was like, I just, Hannibal's. First scene just happened. And, he said, and I quote, put the fucking phone down and pay attention. We stopped talking football right then and there. And I was paying attention obviously before, but, I just wanted to check what he was saying. And even when I had to go to the bathroom and let my dogs out in the middle of the movie. I texted him again and I just said, bathroom break. This is amazing. And he said, again, put the phone down. And so, I just thought that was really funny because he knows, he works in Hollywood and he's a really, great guy and he knows movies better than anybody that I know. And so, that experience, especially, telling him, Hannibal's just came on screen for the first time he knew, and, when you're watching that scene is unbelievable. And that's when it really, I feel like the movie really hooks you in. And from then on it's, it does not let you go at all, from that moment on. Not that it lets you go in the beginning, but you do have this kind of calm sort of introduction that. You can easily forget what you're getting into, what you got into with this movie when you're in the intro and then whenever he comes on screen and you hear Anthony Hopkins and his performance, just the coupling of his dialogue, his writing, what the script does for him and his delivery is. Truly haunting. It's a perfect storm because the script does such a great job at characterizing Hannibal as this, you know, obviously he's a cold-blooded killer, but we don't see necessarily that of him for a little while, and I think that's

Carson:

That's what I was trying to say before. Yeah.

Preston:

Right. We don't see that side of him really until the second half of the second act. I would say maybe roughly around

Carson:

Mm-hmm.

Preston:

And so up until that point, you really get to characterize the guy Himself and he's a creep. And, and we get that. And you know, we, we, it's said aloud that he's a cannibal. It's said aloud that he's in the smack security prison for a reason and all of those things. But we're, we get to see him as a psychiatrist, as an insane psychiatrist, like an insanely good psychiatrist who's just like reading every single detail and all the minutia of his conversations With Clarice, you get all of that and, the coupling of the way that they write that and the way that Anthony Hopkins plays it perfect and it draws you into his character. So. much. He's magnetic on the screen. He is absolutely

Carson:

Yes.

Preston:

magnetic. And it, I mean, that's why he won an Oscar for it. He was one of five Oscar wins for this movie, one of the others being Best Riding. That, that script won that screenplay, won an Oscar as well as did the director, Jonathan Dem and Jodie Foster. And then of course it wins. picture too. So, yeah, it deserved all of those. And I believe I read that the movie came out over a year before that Oscars happened. Like it was a February release.

Carson:

because yes, I was just looking at, before this, taking some notes and like looking up original 1991, reviews, it's like all the, in the newspapers, which is just fun to go on, on, on. New York Times archives or Los Angeles Times archives and like, you had to look at an archived article and it's kind of really funny as a concept, uh,

Preston:

Because

Carson:

can't just like find the article right away.

Preston:

We didn't

Carson:

Yeah,

Preston:

weren't on the letterbox back then.

Carson:

no. Like people weren't going out and, rating it. With one sentence and giving it a, a zinger with a joke immediately leaving the, the theater and buying the, the limited edition popcorn bucket on the way out. We used to be a proper country.

Preston:

Four and a half out of five because no post credit scene.

Carson:

No post courtesy. No, but like what's fascinating too is like, it, it's just so funny reading these. Not funny, but like, it's interesting to read these reviews and the, there's like a disclaimer at the bottom of the new

Preston:

before the Oscars.

Carson:

Yeah, like so far in advance, like this New York Times, February 14th, 1991 and it's, it, this disclaimer is so funny because Silence of the Lambs, which has been rated R. Under 17 requires accompanying parent or adult. Includes some graphic still pictures of battered bodies. That's it. That's it. Nothing else. Nothing. That's, that's the disclaimer. And I'm like, that's freaking incredible. Like there used to be like, not really information that was like, now there's like sites that like break down the every single scene of a movie of like what? What's in it? What's okay, you know, whatever. And like, can you imagine being like,

Preston:

before you go

Carson:

Can you imagine being 15, 16, back in the day sneaking into this movie, like buying a ticket? I don't know what else was out that weekend, but like buying a ticket for a different movie and sneaking into this movie and being like, it's probably a defining moment of your teenage existence is sneaking into this movie because you'd be like, oh my gosh, we did it. We got away with the heist.

Preston:

Yeah. And this movie of All Mo, I mean, my goodness, just the experience of it all. We've talked a lot about Anthony Hopkins', Hannibal Lecter, and truly his performance, propels the whole thing. I can't say Carrie actually, because of how great so much else of the movie is, right? Like Jodi

Carson:

And guess what?

Preston:

an Oscar for this.

Carson:

Yes. There he is. Only on screen. You're never, never gonna believe this. He has 19 minutes of screen time. Let that sink in.

Preston:

That's

Carson:

minutes of a two hour runtime.

Preston:

the difference,

Carson:

that? But you,

Preston:

difference that that can make 19 minutes. I do believe it. I mean, it's crazy to talk about his impact on the film, but I do believe it because I remember kind of thinking like he wasn't on screen that much, but his impact is very, very much there the entire time. Because you're thinking about even when he's not on screen whatever, the last scene with him in it was. Whatever it was, you are still, whatever he said, you are still

Carson:

You're thinking about his words? Yes.

Preston:

he said and part of that is. It's twofold again, because it's the writing and it's also his performance, but you're thinking about what he said, how it applies to what you're watching now within the story. Whether it is something about Buffalo Bill, the serial killer that they're trying to catch, whether it's something about Clarice he's kind of doing this character deconstruction of, and then the film kind of goes with it and shows you it is really incredible because he's. On your mind somehow because that performance is so chilling. And because the script and his dialogue lends itself to the story as a whole, and you're just thinking about impact that he leaves on you and how it carries into scenes that he's not on screen for at all.

Carson:

And he also like not to mention post the, the ambulance scene. I mean, it cuts away. And then he's not in the movie again until the phone call at the end.

Preston:

Yeah.

Carson:

That's insane.

Preston:

He's gone.

Carson:

Um,

Preston:

the third

Carson:

but like,

Preston:

raves about.

Carson:

yes, but like the entire setup of it and her, I will never forget like the whole line about these serial killers, like coveting and like the whole thing of the coveting wasn't right in front of you. And then them figuring out that it's. He must have known the first victim because yada, yada, yada. Like that whole through line is fa was like, oh, everything is clicking together of like their dynamic going back and forth. And part of it, why I think it's so engaging is they smartly put all this through Jodi Foster's character and it's like we're learning with her and also like. Kind of going back and forth and figuring things out, and it makes you feel like you're, you're right in the thick of it. And I think that was a really smart move. We should probably also mention that like, this is based off a book, which I did not know going into it until I read after, which is fascinating and, paraphrasing here, but I saw another one of these reviews like talking about how. Oh, here it is. And yeah, again, back to the New York Times review, the original, 1991 February review. The dialogue is tough and sharp literate without being literary. And I think that is fantastic because they somehow took something that could probably be very in. I'm curious to read the book. I probably will read the book after all this, something could probably be very drawn out in internal and I can see definitely scenes like. After she leaves Hannibal's cell, there's probably a whole chapter of like what she's thinking for the first time and probably the flashbacks with all of her childhood stuff is probably elaborated more, but the way, the choices the movie makes to adapt it in such a way, I think is so smart for it being a book. And the dialogue feels, like natural, like it feels like it's this world that it's setting up. And I think that's when, you know, there's a really special script is like you just lose yourself. You're not, thinking about the dialogue once other than the actual mystery of the words. Sometimes in more modern movies, I'm like, man, this feels like, it's not even like brain rot dialogue. I would describe it as like. Netflix dialogue where it's like they're betting on that, somebody's half watching, so there's all this fluff in the beginning and the end of scenes because they want to fill time and then they'll only wanna put the information and the middle of the scene, if that makes sense. And so it's like, oh, what did you do today? Well, you'll never believe what happened. And that just like this movie is cutthroat. And how it, it's just sharp. It just gets to the point, it gets to the meat of the scene. Yeah, I know, I know. Um, I'll find some better adjectives, but yeah, like

Preston:

I agree.

Carson:

the writing is so smart on this movie.

Preston:

Yeah, it is. And you know, this brings me to, another point that I really wanted to talk about, which is why I pushed that we do this movie. Because when we were discussing what movie to watch, you mentioned this is based off of a book. The reason that I wanted to do this movie is because you texted me the list of movies that you hadn't seen that you were looking at watching this fall and this was on it I had just finished. I mean, I was, the credits were rolling when you texted me this, which is crazy. I didn't tell you this, but the credits were rolling of this new. Documentary on Hulu, and it's called Ted Bundy Dialogue with the Devil. And that is important for Silence of the Lambs because it is Silence of the Lambs. The book Silence of the Lambs was based on, obviously these are fictional characters, within Silence of the Lambs, but it was based on a real life scenario inspired by a real life scenario, which Robert Keppel. Who was trying to catch the Green River Killer who was killing in the Seattle area. Ted Bundy offered to help him. Ted Bundy already locked up, escaped all of his whole saga was over. He was on death's row. In an effort to try to extend his life, to try to postpone his execution, Ted Bundy reached out also in an effort to sort of like, they talk a little bit about it in this documentary about how he felt a sort of pride, maybe because it was the Seattle area, somewhere that Ted Bundy had killed and a serial killer maybe, territorial in that regard, knowing that there's another one out there killing people. But he reached out to Bob Keppel, to say, I can help you catch the Green River Killer. And they recorded. All of it. And so it's all,

Carson:

Wow.

Preston:

with Bob Keppel who basically, and again, they go into it di the documentaries on Hulu called Ted Mundy Dialogue with the Devil. talk about, how this was sort of the way that they began to learn how to speak. At just plainly how to speak serial killers, how to interview a serial killer, how to get into the mind of a serial killer, because while they are getting Ted Bundy's quote unquote, help to catch the Green River Killer, they knew that they could not get into Ted Bundy's help. knew that Ted Bundy could not help them without revealing some of his own secrets. And Bob Keppel. Had tried and failed in the past to get evidence of Bundy killing eight girls in his area. He was convicted for something else, for a different murder, his execution, all of that was through Florida. This was elsewhere in the country because he had fled, and so he was using these interviews in which they're trying to kind of obviously get his help to catch the Green River Killer, but he was also using them in a way. To try to get to the bottom and get him to confess eight other murders, Bundy, eight other murders in the area that he had never confessed to, to give some, some peace of mind to the families of those eight girls that Ted Bundy did kill. And he did get confessions. Confessions for all eight. And it's just a, it's a fantastic documentary. It's five parts, I think maybe four or five on Hulu and man. The second I saw,'cause they mentioned Silence of the Lambs quite a bit in the documentary because it's what inspired the, I mean, what's, how can you even, you know, you take yourself back. It's like the idea of using one serial killer to try to catch another is like the most insane, like. Frankly demented thing you can think of. But it happened in real life and it kind of was the beginning of how they investigate serial killers in a lot of ways. And it led to a film like Silence of the Lambs, which still has a few, inspirations and, little nuggets, Easter eggs, if you will, that nod to real life.

Carson:

Yeah, that it was based, that the book based it on basically.

Preston:

Yeah.

Carson:

That's crazy.

Preston:

the one thing that I picked up on pretty quickly, in Silence of the Lambs, you've got Buffalo Bill, and he like puts the, this is so gross. He like puts the bug thing in

Carson:

Uh,

Preston:

throats,

Carson:

yes.

Preston:

And not only is he putting them in the river, but he's based on the Green River Killer. Like he's the killer that they're trying to use another serial killer to catch. And the Green River Killer, river is right there. Obviously that's a connection. But then also one thing that the Green River Killer did, and this is like, is really graphic, but we've been talking about serial killers, the entire show. like, sorry if you're listening in this. Is gross to you, but this actually happened. Green River Killer kill his victims and then there was a lot of necrophilia going on with him as well. And he would put rocks inside of victim's vaginas he left them. I hear that watching the documentary, I hear about that. I know you're like, your spine chills even hearing about that. But

Carson:

Yeah. Yeah,

Preston:

heard that kind of watching the documentary and they mentioned that that was something that he did. then when I was watching Silence of the Lambs and I see them just pull this bug out of this girl's throat, I was like, because I

Carson:

dude. Talk about a scene.

Preston:

happened.

Carson:

Yeah, that must have been like an extra weird scene for you then.'cause that scene is crazy that like, it's also a great character scene. As crazy as like, the focus of the scene is, she has to like, kind of like hide and underneath she, she can't like be reactive. Like they, they put that stuff on under their nose and then there's like. I think it's so smart that we don't see the body on the table for like a good two, three minutes. We're just getting her reactions as Clarice is. Like, this is the first time that anything, like this,, she goes from. In training to like, you know, this is kind of like a very controlled high school, college environment. Like, you know, they're going on morning runs and they're quizzing each other. Like, you gotta ace the test today. And you know, there's like, oh, you didn't check your corner there. You're dead. Thanks coach. Like, it's all this controlled, training. And then she gets literally thrown into this. Based off the whim of this, of the one superior, basically needing any connection, any sort of leg up on this entire scenario with Buffalo Bill and then for her to get to this town. Basically had to like deal with having zero authority, zero people taking her seriously. It's all these guys standing around in the room being like, oh, that scene is so awkward when she's standing in the, funeral home and they're just like, he leaves and then she's there.

Preston:

moments, sorry to interrupt, but one of my favorite moments, to your point, and it's on the theme of sexism, which is just extremely well explored, both spoken and unspoken, throughout this movie. One of the unspoken ways that I really loved early in the movie, it shows her getting into an elevator, as the only woman in the elevator, and

Carson:

Yes.

Preston:

her is a man. I thought it was just brilliant because every single extra that they cast to be in this elevator was at least a foot taller than her. And

Carson:

so tall.

Preston:

And the shot

Carson:

it was like all the red shirts, right?

Preston:

Yep. It was about to say they're all wearing red and you just, god, you feel her smallness,

Carson:

Claustrophobic.

Preston:

Yeah.

Carson:

Yes.

Preston:

Things

Carson:

And then, yeah, the few,

Preston:

ways that it implements the themes of the movie so well.

Carson:

yeah. And then anyways, back to the, the, the scene where she's like, there's something in, in this girl's throat, and they pull out that bug and, it's, it's just such a fascinating journey that like, and then they, it goes to like, she sort of becomes like the expert and then she kind of gets kicked off the case again. You kind of had the hospital guy bullying himself. I thought that press conference scene was hilarious. Where he's like, we don't have a name yet, but my name is Charles Milton or whatever.

Preston:

Yeah.

Carson:

So you have all this weaseling for control. And she kind of gets this crash course on the cruelty of the normal world too. And I think that's sort of the allure of her talking to Hannibal too, is she needs a way through her world just as much as the case needs to be solved, if that makes sense. He's sort of like this bouncing board for her rise and role in the FBI and the situation of what she can achieve. And you know, it's fascinating. It's just like you couldn't invent a better, more interesting dynamic for this character to bounce off of. And then for him to leave midway through the second act, like we mentioned earlier. And then have her finish out her arc I thought was so smart is like she takes control of the situation and everything leading up to her eventually shooting Buffalo bill in the basement. It's crazy moment to see her go on that journey.

Preston:

Yeah, you talked a little bit about what they do. The little switcheroo that they do, in

Carson:

Yes, yes. At the coming in the door,

Preston:

right when she's at, at his door. And gonna be honest, like I, maybe I'm, I thought I was a smarter movie watcher, man. I'll tell you that. Uh,

Carson:

I'm telling you, you get, you get lulled in. It's not your fault.

Preston:

Yeah. I thought I would not be tricked by something like that. Even if you're not tricked, right? I was tricked. But even if you're not tricked by something like that, you can still see it and be like, oh, they did that. Well, I really appreciate that. That was awesome what they did. when you're tricked by it, and I was, just blown away. I mean, I think part of it is because. The pacing of the movie is so perfect in that it is just constantly keeping you engaged to the point where you're not really thinking about first, second, and third act. When you're watching this thing, you're not really

Carson:

Oh, not at all.

Preston:

story structure. You're not really thinking about, What we're leading to. I mean, maybe you are thinking about what we're leading to, but you're not necessarily thinking about how close we are to it. You're not thinking about, when's the movie gonna end? How long has it been since it started? Those sorts of things. Even in other good movies, you might think of that kind of stuff. Whenever you're in the middle of watching, you're not thinking about that at all. So I was realizing that we were about to hit the beginning of that third act that we were about to hit this climactic moment, of her. Catching Buffalo Bill, obviously, you know that that's probably eventually going to be the way this thing ends, whenever they say we got him, the FBI guy is on the phone with her, he says, we got him, we got a name, we're on the way. We got the address, we're gonna go get him. didn't buy that, you know, I, I never really thought, oh yeah, that's just the

Carson:

Yeah, it was too. It was too wrapped up.

Preston:

Yeah, that would've been, that was just too, too quick and too easy at the same time. I thought that she was gonna open the door and just find somebody else to interview about Buffalo Bill. I, I thought that they were just gonna be at the wrong place. She was gonna get one more interview and then maybe she goes and finds him after that. But, the way that they cut that together with them, you know, the SWAT team surrounding the house in one end, and again, you kind of get this juxtaposition of. At one house, you've got the full FBI team, the full SWAT team. They're surrounding the house, their guns are drawn, they're ready to go. Like whoever's in that house is getting caught done deal. There is no chance on the other end. You've got,

Carson:

in the gift grab. I wish I, we just had to say is it's fantastic. Like what a, they pull out the truck and everything. It is so funny.

Preston:

But, and it's all ready to go on this. And, and then on the other end, you've got a college student who's just doing some interviews and like she's just door knocking it's just her and we haven't seen her. Correct. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't think we've seen her pull a gun. I don't think we've seen her in any sort of real action other than simulated action. And she does the interviews with Hannibal Lecter, but we haven't seen her face a real situation like this yet

Carson:

Yep.

Preston:

movie. And so you do feel like she's not necessarily safe, like you don't feel like she's prepared to handle this type of a thing. You haven't seen her do it. In the movie yet. And so you have this entirely, controlled situation from the FBI's perspective on one end and then they're totally at the wrong place. And then you've got this other situation where she is just out there in the open, you know, anything could happen to her, to the point where when you see that it's Buffalo Bill who opens the door for her, and that reveal of,

Carson:

Ugh.

Preston:

oh my god.

Carson:

And it's so smart that we've already seen him by this point because.

Preston:

yeah.

Carson:

Then it, that moment clicks so much more, especially with like the door cracked and you just see him and then, he's like, come on in. You're like, no, no, no, no, no. And you start to put together like

Preston:

You watch

Carson:

the whole mom thing.

Preston:

and she sees the all of the

Carson:

Oh, it's so good.

Preston:

Yeah.

Carson:

The sewing. Yeah. It's like the sewing threads and the whatever else is laying around in the kitchen because like that whole first floor is like kind of like a false kind of deal. It doesn't look normal, but it looks normal as. A relative term, and it was just like, but then it starts to creep in and oh my gosh, the moment she drops the gun and he runs to the other room and there's that cutaway to the gun prior to him grabbing it, and then he grabs it, oh, you best believe my volume was going down to like negative forward dude. As soon as she like found that other door, and I'm like, I, this, that's where, Howard Shor's score was just going crazy. And I'm like, it's, it's too creepy. I'm, I just start turning the volume down and then I would just start turning it up a little and then I'd turn it back down and then that stupid crusty dog would start barking and I'm like, oh my God, get outta here. I don't want to hear anything about this dog anymore.

Preston:

Dude,

Carson:

was perfectly fine. Fine dog. It just was annoying.

Preston:

I was watching with my dog. Who hates seeing other dogs

Carson:

This must have been, they must have dropped the whole star on their letterbox review. It's.

Preston:

ADA, little, little Miss Ada did not, like that. I deal with it whenever she, whenever you hear a dog or something and she like, she'll jump up. Obviously like dogs when they're laying on your lap as a man, have a really great knack for finding the one place on a man's body that you don't want

Carson:

Yeah.

Preston:

directly stepped on, but she's really good at that. So like I, I've gotten used to like bracing myself for it in scenarios like this. So anyway, they get, princess is the dog's name, I think, right?

Carson:

Yes. Which is hilarious.

Preston:

and it's this scene where Catherine, the senator's daughter who's in the well or

Carson:

Yeah. Takes, takes the dog hostage.

Preston:

She's trying to take the dog hostage. ADA jumps up, she's like, God, she's staring at the screen. She's like going nuts. And I'm just like, you learn to deal with it. But, I'm a protective dog dad, right? She's the little baby. She's probably a little pampered too much. She's definitely a little pampered too much. But I'm watching this and I'm like, oh shit. Perfect little angel. My baby thinks that this is real. I haven't seen this movie before and I'm like, there's a real chance that this dog's neck gets snapped in half in the next

Carson:

dude,

Preston:

30 seconds, and

Carson:

and sidebar on that.

Preston:

So I

Carson:

yeah. You had to like cover her eyes.

Preston:

I you, your daddy is not allowing you to watch this movie anymore.

Carson:

They, they should have put the disclaimer in the New York Times review that I mentioned that your, your dog should not be allowed. To watch, because speaking of dogs being harmed in movies, that sounds horrible. Kelly has not seen the John Wick movies and we watched John Wick one and two this weekend, before I watched this movie she knows that the dog dies in the first movie. I'm giving the full husband breakdown. Here's what you need to know about the scene. Here's the type of dog, here's the situation. You're gonna see revenge about the dog. There's gonna be another dog. Eventually, you just need to just like. Just wait. Just everything is going to be okay. It is a fictional character. It's a fictional dog. No dogs were harmed in the making of this movie, but when it happened, she was like, just throwing pitchforks, man. And I was just like, it is it, it does make it stressful. And when she had that dog down there and it was like the lights were off and, sorry. Back to Silence of Lambs. And he's walking in and he first discovers that, catherine has the dog down there. I'm like, oh crap. And also, I'm just now remembering that when he, he grabbed the gun and then we get that creepy doorbell cut when they're ringing the doorbell, the FBI's ringing the doorbell and then Clarice is ringing the doorbell and, His creepy bell that rings underneath the house to like, let him know that there's someone at the doorbell was terrifying.

Preston:

But you

Carson:

That was an insane editing moment.

Preston:

that it

Carson:

I know, I know. That was before you get revealed.

Preston:

Or the FBI, you still

Carson:

Yes, I.

Preston:

And that's, I, it's so, it's just so well done. Yeah. I'm enamored by this movie. I loved it I'm a wuss. I don't know how else to say that. I tried to find a way not to say that I don't

Carson:

Mm-hmm.

Preston:

scares and I don't like, I especially don't like cheap jump scares that do not feel earned. If, if a movie has like earned the right to scare me with a jump scare, I'm okay with it. This movie has zero jump scares. Fun fact. I don't know if you knew

Carson:

And, you know, it was even,

Preston:

about it, but none

Carson:

ugh,

Preston:

and I was more terrified than any movie that has jump scared me. I'll tell you that.

Carson:

we had to circle back to the beginning where I was told you I was scared of the lights, the whole freaking scene with the night vision. Which one? Terrifying. During the actual kidnapping scene of Kathryn, that was terrifying, number one. Number two, it comes back and he turns off the lights and then turns on the night vision. Um,

Preston:

The way

Carson:

when Kathryn, or, uh oh,

Preston:

That whole

Carson:

when.

Preston:

showdown through his POV?

Carson:

Is terrifying. One is the Is, yeah.'cause like she's right in front of him and he's like almost grabbing her hair and she's moving and like one of the most terrifying scenes

Preston:

yeah.

Carson:

Like

Preston:

The way that

Carson:

straight up.

Preston:

through his point of view, especially because like going into that, you don't see him for a solid like minute and a half, two minutes.

Carson:

No. So

Preston:

of

Carson:

she's going around the house, she's clearing every room. Katherine screaming, and then all of a sudden you get a hard cut to the, the eyes of the night vision turning on.

Preston:

And you're

Carson:

That's the first time you've seen him in minutes.

Preston:

I know who wears

Carson:

My gut dropped and my volume went, my volume went back down to negative five. No, no, no, no, no.

Preston:

Man, that was so good. It's such a great way to end it. And to kind of just things up, I liked the way the movie wrapped things up as well because you get the phone call at the end and that shot of Hannibal following the doctor that tormented him when he was in prison. That shot lasts for the entire credits also, which I kind of thought was cool.

Carson:

Yes.

Preston:

the shot is like five, six minutes long. Like he, he's way like Hannibal walks off screen and the credits are still going and you just see the street. I thought that was neat. But the line that they give of, having an old friend for dinner like that is

Carson:

Oh yes.

Preston:

It's so creepy, but it's so like and on the nose. It's one of those lines. It's an iconic line, you know, it's an iconic, villain killer, line that just, sticks with you. I thought it was

Carson:

So perfectly delivered.

Preston:

button on, on the whole

Carson:

Yes. It's like the ice, it's like the icing on the cake.

Preston:

Yeah. Yeah. I

Carson:

And

Preston:

that.

Carson:

I had a gut feeling he was coming back. But the way he did it was just like the stamp on the movie, man. Exactly what you're saying. Like,

Preston:

act is

Carson:

oh.

Preston:

enthralling without him. That whole face off with her and Buffalo bill and all of that is just so enthralling without him at all that you kind of, you don't forget about him, but also it's so good that. You're kind of like not as concerned of when's Hannibal gonna come back? Where's Hannibal? Because when he escapes, you're like, oh, where's he gonna go? What's he gonna do? Is he gonna go after Clarice? What's gonna happen? But then everything they do with Clarice and Buffalo Bill, which is the actual story that's so freaking good that. not

Carson:

You forget.

Preston:

with Hannibal to the point where maybe you do forget about him, but you don't forget about him entirely. But you don't care as much necessarily where he's headed, what he's doing, uh, to the point where when he comes back again, it's the very last scene just right at the end. You're like, oh, oh, oh my god. Right. Yeah, him, the whole reason that I got roped into this movie, the whole reason that I locked in, you know, an hour and a half ago. Really great stuff.

Carson:

And not to mention like. The line to of, well, Clarice have the lamb stop screaming. The whole, the whole like, this is like an even more incredible way of like when they say the title in the movie and you're like, you're like, oh, I under, and you're like Leo DiCaprio. And once upon Time in Hollywood, like I understood the reference. Like that was like the ultimate. Moment in this movie where you're like, oh my gosh. But like in the char, in the context of the character, you know, she's getting sworn into the FBI, you know, everything's on the upswing, and then boom, hit her with this psychological

Preston:

Torture.

Carson:

Of a line delivery and then goes right into the line about I'm meeting a friend for dinner, and I'm like, oh my gosh.

Preston:

Yep. Yep. Crazy stuff. Crazy stuff.

Carson:

I can't imagine seeing this movie in 1991 in theaters like

Preston:

No. way. I don't even know how I would. Yeah. It's like I would've loved to see this movie in theaters and I would've loved to see it knowing that all my friends were seeing it, and then talk with them afterward. I would've loved to have that kind of experience

Carson:

the Water Cooler Talk on Monday. For like after the weekend, this movie came out, probably was like one of the most elite water cooler talks. You can just see it now. And then he wore his face on him. Like, you know, like it's just like the whole day would've been wasted and it would've been like the best day, unproductive day at work. Ever talking about this movie?

Preston:

on

Carson:

Yes.

Preston:

I'll tell you that I'm getting no work done. My emails, I'll email a coworker across the room about this movie if I

Carson:

No, no, they didn't have email Preston. They didn't, I actually, I should stop talking. They probably did have email in 1991, but it was probably very, very slow.

Preston:

I'm lost in, I feel almost

Carson:

We,

Preston:

but I'm knocking on the door. I'm sending a fax. Do they have that in 1991? I don't know. Whatever. I'm lighting my, I'm sending a Raven the

Carson:

it's, it's. Was it, was it, oh, it was glass onion, right? Where they, the one creepy billionaire Ed Norton guy, like sends faxes to people. Am I crazy?

Preston:

yeah. Speaking of

Carson:

Yes,

Preston:

out, it's coming soon. Wake up dead man

Carson:

I know it. Uh, speaking of fall vibes, like a,

Preston:

episode of Zoll

Carson:

like

Preston:

Yeah.

Carson:

cathedrals, we are definitely doing his iPod episode on that.

Preston:

We,

Carson:

It's gonna be.

Preston:

on wake up Dead man, but also like the whole trilogy.

Carson:

Let's do it.

Preston:

do the other two as well.

Carson:

I already need to rewatch, glass onion specifically because I've seen it twice, but that was like two, it, I watched it once in theaters on Thanksgiving with my family, and then I watched it Christmas break. On Netflix. So it's been since, when did that movie come out? 2022. Does that sound right?

Preston:

I

Carson:

I think 2022.

Preston:

Yeah.

Carson:

So it's been three years since I've seen that movie.

Preston:

been a while for me as well. We'll, we'll definitely get into that. That's just a little tease of what may or may not be coming up on Solly pod.

Carson:

If we start speaking in, monograms and fall and like when she's like, has the notepad out and she's like trying to figure out what, that like whatever friend, like, storage places, like we'll just start at the end of every podcast because we totally have our next episode plan. Guys,

Preston:

Absolutely

Carson:

start doing cryptic.

Preston:

really well.

Carson:

Call us the sequel Star Wars sequel trilogy the way we're planned right now. Okay, we're gonna have to cut that.

Preston:

And on that note, no, I don't think we should. I don't wanna cut that. I love it personally. On that note, I think that's it. I think that's a good time to wrap it up, and call it for this one. Carson, I'm glad we got to watch this movie. Silence of the Lambs. Absolutely fantastic. I'm excited for future episodes that are all planned out extremely well, just as well as the Star Wars sequel Trilogy was. And, I'm excited for Wake Up Dead Man, and I'm excited for Halloween and I am just, I'm glad to have had this episode and I'm looking forward to what we got going on next.

Carson:

Absolutely. And we will hopefully be mentioning some more horror films throughout the fall, through the holiday season, some other stuff. Yeah, it's just gonna be fun to break down other movies and share these moments. I know like, gosh, it's so hard to both watch a movie. Not tell anybody about it. Wait till the episode to discuss it. But also like, we're like sending texts beforehand and it's like, oh, I don't wanna go too far and I don't wanna talk about this.'cause then we've already have talked about it.

Preston:

you about, because I know we're gonna have like

Carson:

Yes, yes. So I just love that you like your last text to me. I was like, yeah, that's interesting. And I just thought it was so funny that like, alright, we gotta like, we gotta tame it down. We gotta make sure we have.

Preston:

Yeah.

Carson:

you're gonna No.

Preston:

stuff though. Great movie. time talking about it. Looking forward to the next one. For those of you listening, if you have not subscribed yet to our podcast, make sure you do. We're on all different platforms. Follow us on social media at Z Pod, and we will have more content coming up for you. More episodes coming up very soon. Looking forward to everything, that we have in the works. So, with that. I have been Preston Moore signing off for myself and Carson Terrell, my co-host, and we will see you guys at the movies and at the next one.

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Preston Moore

Host
Head Shot

Carson Terrell

Co-host